Subject: You all are out of your minds
Here's a really far out letter to one of my quackbuster allies:
I have read many of your smear tactic bullshit, you have no way to prove any of your lies. How totally outrageous to say that herbs are somehow bad. You are a fool, whomever writes your bullshit smearing headlines should go out and try some of the things you are smearing first to see that they all really do work. I have used and still use many herbal products that are totally amazing, true healing. Your bullshit about herbs counteract the pharmaceutical drugs a person takes is ridiculous. You all must be highly paid by the crooks that run these drug companies. Prescription drugs kill, you FOOLS. To say different is lunacy, you may reach the lay person with your evil messages but the educated will never listen to this nonsense. There is no prescription drug that addresses the root cause of an ailment, they only mask symptoms, now if I am lying or speaking falsely,,,, prove it FOOLS. There is no herb or other natural supplement that will kill you if taken in large amounts, however if you take any prescription drug in any dosage above what is recommended you are dead, now tell me I am wrong, you FOOLS. It makes me sick to see you bash Chiropractors the way you do, when the reality is you and all of your worthless staff writing this shit probably go to one regularly. But you will say anything for money right. I really wish I could debate any of you FOOLS sometime. Why do not you put the real story of how many people are cured every year of cancer, lupus, MS, AIDS, heart disease, kidney disease, acid reflux, and the hundreds of other ailments that your bullshit bosses, (pharmaceutical companies, food manufacturers ect.) are causing. You can not write of these naturopathic success stories now can you, bosses will get mad. I have personally seen cancer go into remission through naturopathic herbal remedies, so tell me am I lying?????????????
I do not figure to hear back from anyone there, but I will keep hoping each day to hear what your response might be to what I have said.
The truth will set you free
Peter
peterocksu@aol.com
*************
My comment:
Now after reading that, who's the crazy one? !!
It's responses like this (we get them all the time) that make it clear who needs help, but this guy may possibly be beyond being helped. A psychiatrist would be more relevant than any of his herbs. It's really rare to get well-reasoned, rational, and polite responses from promoters of so-called "alternative" medicine. The whole field seems to attract the less than rational types.
It also turns out that this disturbed person used a fake email address, so any response fell on deaf ears. A few responses still deserve airing, so I have provided them below, with the permission of the authors.
*******************************************************
Peter Moran, MD, provided this excellent off-the-cuff response:
> I do not figure to hear back from anyone there, but I will keep
> hoping each day to hear what your response might be to what
> I have said.
> The truth will set you free
> Peter
Peter, the divide that you think exists between drugs and herbs is utter fantasy.
Many commonly used drugs are derived from herbs, even many dangerous chemotherapeutic drugs and potent antibiotics, such the taxanes and the mycins, respectively.
Numerous other herbs are lethal poisons in the right dosage, including others used in medicine, such as curare and digitalis.
The numerous poisons of plants are clearly designed to make browsing animals sick, not to help mankind with his ailments, although some do so incidentally.
Moreover, the more herbs are scrutinised, now that they are in wider usage, the more they look like drugs, displaying many previously unrecognised side effects. Look at the side effects shown for St John's Wort and Echinacea. Some, such as Aristolochia, have had to be banned because of serious toxicity. Just about any chemical that alters body biochemistry, and that is not merely reversing a deficiency is liable to have side effects, regardless of whether it comes from a laboratory or plant.
Some herbs that have not yet been incorporated into modern medicine will surely find a useful place there. Some do look as though they may be safer than drugs with comparable effects, but that is being demonstrated by proper clinical study, not rants likes yours, based upon ---- what? What is it that leads you to believe so many things that are palpably wrong?
I am something of an expert on the "alternative" treatment of cancer and can tell you that no herb has been shown to have a reproducible cure rate. Credible testimonials for them are extremely rare in proportion to their usage. Try to chase up cured patients, as I have with some of the promoters of alternative cancer cures and you will find it is all hype.
The most credible herbals for cancer are those with estrogenic effects. They can be predicted to have some effect upon hormonally sensitive cancers, but wide experience with such agents shows they are rarely if ever curative.
Peter Moran
*******************************************************
Dr. James Laidler also had some comments in response to specific parts of the rant:
> I have read many of your smear tactic bullshit, you have no
> way to prove any of your lies. How totally outrageous to say
> that herbs are somehow bad.
***
Some herbs are just fine - I especially enjoy oregano, basil, sage and rosemary. The problem is when people try to make money by selling "herbs" as medicine. That's the "bad" part.
***
> You are a fool, whomever writes your bullshit smearing
> headlines should go out and try some of the things you are
> smearing first to see that they all really do work. I have
> used and still use many herbal products that are totally
> amazing, true healing. Your bullshit about herbs counteract
> the pharmaceutical drugs a person takes is ridiculous.
***
Actually, there have been a number of very good studies that show just that. Many of the "herbal" medications that have been studied have serious adverse effects when combined with other medications. This should not come as a surprise - if the "herbs" are having a real effect, they are likely to combine badly with medications that have other or similar effects. If, on the other hand, the "herbal" medications are not doing anything, then you would expect that none of them would combine badly with other medications
***
> You all must be highly paid by the crooks that run these drug
> companies.
***
If so, they must be sending the check to the wrong address. I'll have to get in touch with them and see if I'm owed some money.
***
> Prescription drugs kill, you FOOLS. To say different is lunacy,
> you may reach the lay person with your evil messages but
> the educated will never listen to this nonsense.
***
Yes, prescription drugs kill - especially if taken improperly or in combination with certain herbal medications. So do non-prescription drugs and herbal drugs. Socrates was killed by an herb - hemlock. Ignorance kills, as well.
***
> There is no prescription drug that addresses the root cause
> of an ailment, they only mask symptoms, now if I am lying or
> speaking falsely,,,, prove it FOOLS. There is no herb or other
> natural supplement that will kill you if taken in large
> amounts, however if you take any prescription drug in any
> dosage above what is recommended you are dead, now tell
> me I am wrong, you FOOLS.
***
You are wrong. If you stop by the library and look in the "botany" section, you can find an amazing number of herbs and other plant substances that can and do kill people every year. Also, anything, even pure, distilled water, can be lethal if taken in large enough amounts, or in the wrong way. Try breathing your next glass of water instead of drinking it, if you disagree.
***
> It makes me sick to see you bash Chiropractors the way you
> do, when the reality is you and all of your worthless staff
> writing this shit probably go to one regularly. But you will
> say anything for money right.
***
There you go about the money, again! Was I supposed to fill out a form or something? How do I arrange to get all this money that's supposed to be coming to me?
***
> I really wish I could debate any of you FOOLS sometime.
***
Feel free to engage me in a debate. Do you think you can argue without using insults, or should we just get down to the mud-wrestling from the get-go?
***
> Why do not you put the real story of how many people are
> cured every year of cancer, lupus, MS, AIDS, heart disease,
> kidney disease, acid reflux, and the hundreds of other
> ailments that your bullshit bosses, (pharmaceutical
> companies, food manufacturers ect.) are causing. You can
> not write of these naturopathic success stories now can you,
> bosses will get mad.
***
Again, if these people are supposed to be my boss, why aren't they be paying me?
***
> I have personally seen cancer go into remission through
> naturopathic herbal remedies, so tell me am I lying?????????????
***
I really can't say that you're lying, since it is possible that you are unaware that you are mistaken. However, it is painfully clear that you are mistaken about a good number of things. I'll leave it to you to decide if you are lying or just wrong.
***
> I do not figure to hear back from anyone there, but I will
> keep hoping each day to hear what your response might be
> to what I have said.
***
Your wish is granted!
***
> The truth will set you free
***
If you can see it and grasp it.
***
> Peter
Sincerely,
Jim Laidler
Portland, Oregon USA
I have read many of your smear tactic bullshit, you have no way to prove any of your lies. How totally outrageous to say that herbs are somehow bad. You are a fool, whomever writes your bullshit smearing headlines should go out and try some of the things you are smearing first to see that they all really do work. I have used and still use many herbal products that are totally amazing, true healing. Your bullshit about herbs counteract the pharmaceutical drugs a person takes is ridiculous. You all must be highly paid by the crooks that run these drug companies. Prescription drugs kill, you FOOLS. To say different is lunacy, you may reach the lay person with your evil messages but the educated will never listen to this nonsense. There is no prescription drug that addresses the root cause of an ailment, they only mask symptoms, now if I am lying or speaking falsely,,,, prove it FOOLS. There is no herb or other natural supplement that will kill you if taken in large amounts, however if you take any prescription drug in any dosage above what is recommended you are dead, now tell me I am wrong, you FOOLS. It makes me sick to see you bash Chiropractors the way you do, when the reality is you and all of your worthless staff writing this shit probably go to one regularly. But you will say anything for money right. I really wish I could debate any of you FOOLS sometime. Why do not you put the real story of how many people are cured every year of cancer, lupus, MS, AIDS, heart disease, kidney disease, acid reflux, and the hundreds of other ailments that your bullshit bosses, (pharmaceutical companies, food manufacturers ect.) are causing. You can not write of these naturopathic success stories now can you, bosses will get mad. I have personally seen cancer go into remission through naturopathic herbal remedies, so tell me am I lying?????????????
I do not figure to hear back from anyone there, but I will keep hoping each day to hear what your response might be to what I have said.
The truth will set you free
Peter
peterocksu@aol.com
*************
My comment:
Now after reading that, who's the crazy one? !!
It's responses like this (we get them all the time) that make it clear who needs help, but this guy may possibly be beyond being helped. A psychiatrist would be more relevant than any of his herbs. It's really rare to get well-reasoned, rational, and polite responses from promoters of so-called "alternative" medicine. The whole field seems to attract the less than rational types.
It also turns out that this disturbed person used a fake email address, so any response fell on deaf ears. A few responses still deserve airing, so I have provided them below, with the permission of the authors.
*******************************************************
Peter Moran, MD, provided this excellent off-the-cuff response:
> I do not figure to hear back from anyone there, but I will keep
> hoping each day to hear what your response might be to what
> I have said.
> The truth will set you free
> Peter
Peter, the divide that you think exists between drugs and herbs is utter fantasy.
Many commonly used drugs are derived from herbs, even many dangerous chemotherapeutic drugs and potent antibiotics, such the taxanes and the mycins, respectively.
Numerous other herbs are lethal poisons in the right dosage, including others used in medicine, such as curare and digitalis.
The numerous poisons of plants are clearly designed to make browsing animals sick, not to help mankind with his ailments, although some do so incidentally.
Moreover, the more herbs are scrutinised, now that they are in wider usage, the more they look like drugs, displaying many previously unrecognised side effects. Look at the side effects shown for St John's Wort and Echinacea. Some, such as Aristolochia, have had to be banned because of serious toxicity. Just about any chemical that alters body biochemistry, and that is not merely reversing a deficiency is liable to have side effects, regardless of whether it comes from a laboratory or plant.
Some herbs that have not yet been incorporated into modern medicine will surely find a useful place there. Some do look as though they may be safer than drugs with comparable effects, but that is being demonstrated by proper clinical study, not rants likes yours, based upon ---- what? What is it that leads you to believe so many things that are palpably wrong?
I am something of an expert on the "alternative" treatment of cancer and can tell you that no herb has been shown to have a reproducible cure rate. Credible testimonials for them are extremely rare in proportion to their usage. Try to chase up cured patients, as I have with some of the promoters of alternative cancer cures and you will find it is all hype.
The most credible herbals for cancer are those with estrogenic effects. They can be predicted to have some effect upon hormonally sensitive cancers, but wide experience with such agents shows they are rarely if ever curative.
Peter Moran
*******************************************************
Dr. James Laidler also had some comments in response to specific parts of the rant:
> I have read many of your smear tactic bullshit, you have no
> way to prove any of your lies. How totally outrageous to say
> that herbs are somehow bad.
***
Some herbs are just fine - I especially enjoy oregano, basil, sage and rosemary. The problem is when people try to make money by selling "herbs" as medicine. That's the "bad" part.
***
> You are a fool, whomever writes your bullshit smearing
> headlines should go out and try some of the things you are
> smearing first to see that they all really do work. I have
> used and still use many herbal products that are totally
> amazing, true healing. Your bullshit about herbs counteract
> the pharmaceutical drugs a person takes is ridiculous.
***
Actually, there have been a number of very good studies that show just that. Many of the "herbal" medications that have been studied have serious adverse effects when combined with other medications. This should not come as a surprise - if the "herbs" are having a real effect, they are likely to combine badly with medications that have other or similar effects. If, on the other hand, the "herbal" medications are not doing anything, then you would expect that none of them would combine badly with other medications
***
> You all must be highly paid by the crooks that run these drug
> companies.
***
If so, they must be sending the check to the wrong address. I'll have to get in touch with them and see if I'm owed some money.
***
> Prescription drugs kill, you FOOLS. To say different is lunacy,
> you may reach the lay person with your evil messages but
> the educated will never listen to this nonsense.
***
Yes, prescription drugs kill - especially if taken improperly or in combination with certain herbal medications. So do non-prescription drugs and herbal drugs. Socrates was killed by an herb - hemlock. Ignorance kills, as well.
***
> There is no prescription drug that addresses the root cause
> of an ailment, they only mask symptoms, now if I am lying or
> speaking falsely,,,, prove it FOOLS. There is no herb or other
> natural supplement that will kill you if taken in large
> amounts, however if you take any prescription drug in any
> dosage above what is recommended you are dead, now tell
> me I am wrong, you FOOLS.
***
You are wrong. If you stop by the library and look in the "botany" section, you can find an amazing number of herbs and other plant substances that can and do kill people every year. Also, anything, even pure, distilled water, can be lethal if taken in large enough amounts, or in the wrong way. Try breathing your next glass of water instead of drinking it, if you disagree.
***
> It makes me sick to see you bash Chiropractors the way you
> do, when the reality is you and all of your worthless staff
> writing this shit probably go to one regularly. But you will
> say anything for money right.
***
There you go about the money, again! Was I supposed to fill out a form or something? How do I arrange to get all this money that's supposed to be coming to me?
***
> I really wish I could debate any of you FOOLS sometime.
***
Feel free to engage me in a debate. Do you think you can argue without using insults, or should we just get down to the mud-wrestling from the get-go?
***
> Why do not you put the real story of how many people are
> cured every year of cancer, lupus, MS, AIDS, heart disease,
> kidney disease, acid reflux, and the hundreds of other
> ailments that your bullshit bosses, (pharmaceutical
> companies, food manufacturers ect.) are causing. You can
> not write of these naturopathic success stories now can you,
> bosses will get mad.
***
Again, if these people are supposed to be my boss, why aren't they be paying me?
***
> I have personally seen cancer go into remission through
> naturopathic herbal remedies, so tell me am I lying?????????????
***
I really can't say that you're lying, since it is possible that you are unaware that you are mistaken. However, it is painfully clear that you are mistaken about a good number of things. I'll leave it to you to decide if you are lying or just wrong.
***
> I do not figure to hear back from anyone there, but I will
> keep hoping each day to hear what your response might be
> to what I have said.
***
Your wish is granted!
***
> The truth will set you free
***
If you can see it and grasp it.
***
> Peter
Sincerely,
Jim Laidler
Portland, Oregon USA
posted by Sitemaster | 11:48 AM
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